TEHRAN An electronic eavesdropping system called Echelon has been the topic of discussion nowadays as the European Parliament launched a huge investigation on the issue. Here is an interview with the representative of the Special Commission of the European Parliament, Alain Krivine, on the U.S. system.

Q. Could you please elaborate more on Echelon?

A. The existence of Echelon was first revealed by a journalist named Campbell. He said that after World War II, the Americans launched a series of espionage systems in Eastern countries, and after the fall of the Berlin Wall, these systems changed in nature and turned into a political-trade spying network called Echelon. The network is affiliated to the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA).

The Americans officially deny the existence of Echelon. In Europe, vast investigations have been carried out, including an investigation carried out by the French Parliament. The French study says this network exists and is run by the NSA. This network uses huge satellites operated by Britain, New Zealand and Australia. And now the European Parliament has decided to review the issue, since one of the European Union members, i.e. Britain, is involved in the totally illegal spying network.

A 36-member investigative committee has been formed. It interviewed many Western experts and members of intelligence services and made a trip to the Unites States about 15 days ago. The committee is scheduled to present its report in June and the European Parliament will pursue the case in September.

Q. Are there any documents to prove its existence?

A. It is a very complicated case. Those who were involved in creating the network have talked about it, but there is no official proof for our words. Although there is much evidence, no trade company has lodged a complaint.

Airbus lost markets in competition with the American company Boeing and we believe this happened because of eavesdropping. During our trip to the United States 15 days ago, the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) admitted that the U.S. has carried out espionage in the Europe five times. Also, a commission in charge of overseeing all intelligence services in the U.S. Congress once admitted the existence of Echelon. The U.S. spies upon any individual or organization it considers to be "terrorist".

But no one admits officially that there is such a network. However, there is evidence which shows that the NSA carries out espionage and Echelon is a part of those acts. This sort of spying is carried out via satellites and the U.S. has more than 2,000 non-military and trade satellites. This is in addition to U.S. military espionage.

What we know is that the NSA can carry out three billion eavesdrops per day. This is excluding telephones, cell phones and Internet surveillance.

Whatever is transmitted via satellite can be received by Britain, Australia and New Zealand. Satellites of these countries make it possible for them to eavesdrop on the whole world. The French Parliament's report proves the existence of Echelon. The only questions, which remain unanswered, are: "Who has been spied on and how to stop the espionage?"

Q. What do the international laws suggest for such cases?

A. That's the problem. The countries which have signed the Human Rights Convention know that they must obtain permission from a judge or justice department to carry out eavesdropping, and if they do not get permission it is totally illegal.

The Americans justify their acts by saying the rights of American citizens have not been violated and the Constitution has been observed, because they do not spy on American citizens unless they are accused of terrorism.

In the case of economic espionage, which the EU is most interested in, the U.S. is preventing free trade and this violates the European agreement of free trade.

Q. Mr. Krivine, you were a member of the European Parliament delegation which recently traveled to the U.S. CIA and NSA officials refused to meet you. What is your comment on this?

A. Three American organizations refused to be interviewed by us. They were the CIA, the NSA and the Advocacy Center, which is a huge trade center affiliated to the U.S. Department of Commerce. They were all supposed to meet with us, but later said in a letter that they could not receive our delegation. The Americans said that they are the country responsible for maintaining world security and do not think Europe can interview them. Their excuse for having the surveillance system is that European traders do not observe the free trade agreement and that they still use bribery. They claim they are responsible for us and must take care of us, and for this reason our investigations are not wise.

Q. Don't you believe, these U.S. actions may cause more suspicion in this regard?

A. To me, the fact that the U.S. is refusing to answer is a confession of being involved in the spying. The one who spoke the most about the system was the former CIA director who was in charge of the network until 1995. He said they spied on countries, which were suspected of producing unconventional weapons. They also spied on countries, which were trying to violate U.S economic sanctions on certain countries. As he said, the companies who were involved in bribery were also being spied on. A former CIA official confessed to this.

Q. Could European companies get compensation if your commission confirmed the existence of Echelon?

A. It is very difficult. We are reviewing the case, but there is no law to support them. The European Parliament's commission is also trying to find a solution to that, or at least to find a way to put an end to the surveillance by using encryption. Most companies are already using encryption for their electronic correspondence.

I believe it is very dangerous, since Echelon spies on individuals as well as companies. They have a vague definition for the word "terrorist" and they spy on anyone they suspect of being a terrorist.